Home Theater Advice

[Drayu]

I am looking to upgrade my current system to a receiver that can take in audio over HDMI and then decode it. I am tired of having to run an additional optical with the hdmi.

SO....here is what I have and what I am looking at....advice is GREATLY appreciated!

CURRENT:
Sony STR-DG800 7.1 110w/channel Link (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-STR-DG800-7-1-Channel-Receiver-Passthrough/dp/B000EU0UVA)
JBL Center Channel Venue Series Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EZ764E/ref=oss_product)
2x JBL Venue Series Tower Speakers Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FBPHA2/ref=oss_product)
4x BOSE satellite speakers

Looking to Buy:
Yamaha RX-V667 7.2 90w/channel Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003P2V52M/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER) $550
**Combo buy: BUY BOTH- $699**
Harmon Kardon HKTS 20BQ 5.1 Link (http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-Theater-Speaker-System/dp/B0039UUPH6/ref=pd_sim_e_1) $449

Will it be a good upgrade is what I am asking. I will probably keep my speakers, but I know my parents want a surround sound system, so I would probably shift the new speakers and old receiver to them. I am just worried about the quality and performance.....SO...INPUT away!

[Shadowryche]

HDMI transmitted audio can be terrible. Stick with optical.

[Drayu]

updated first post to reflect correct receiver, sony str-dg800.

And thank you Shadow for the input. I have heard mixed reviews, but everything I read says with tweaking you can sync up sound. Is that what you mean or something else?

Also, will I notice a difference in sound between the two systems?

[kilroy0097]

Not sure what you mean by HDMI audio transmission. What I mean is that most devices these days transmit both Video and Audio signal through HDMI cables. I have my PS3 and my Digital Cable doing exactly that to my receiver and I have a single HDMI cable running from my receiver to my HD TV.

The Sound I hear is decoded and processed by my receiver and outputted through my Surround speakers while the video is being shown on my TV. I have is set so my TV speakers are not on when HDMI is the input since I have a decent surround system I'd rather hear instead.

I've never heard of any real issues with audio signals through HDMI for normal every day usage. Maybe audiophiles have issues with that and would rather have pure digital optical signal instead. I personally don't have that need.

The only issues I've heard is video upscaling. Since so many receivers offer this now apparently there are a few that issues with it. Mainly it's people wanting to have their analog equipment (namely the Wii) go through their HDMI instead of having to patch in a separate pair of analog to the TV. That's seems to be hit or miss and I don't have a receiver that does that so I don't worry about it. I have my Wii connected directly with analog cables to the TV and I use the TV volume for sound. I mean it's a Wii how much immersion can you really get with that thing? My PS3 is going through with HDMI and hence I get to enjoy the Bluray, DVDs and games with that and that's pretty kick ass.

[Shadowryche]

To be honest, I'm far from an audiophile, in fact I'm tone deaf from forgetting my plugs at the range one to many times. I only offered the advise based on what I've heard from friends who are DJ's, do karaoke services, or even band roadies. Infact I'd probably still be a roadie if I were capable of properly setting up an equalizer and mixer. Even in my brief stint with the dork squad err I mean Geek Squad, I heard a lot of complaints of audio distortion in systems using HDMI versus optical or even RCA. Who know's, by now since its inception, HDMI may be greatly improved.

[Hellcat]

HDMI isn't terrible, but the HDCP "protection" causes lots of problems, including audio lag and signal issues.

[sir_digalot]

yes the problem is the hdmi/hdcp specification, in times past ( pre 1.3a) the hdcp signal HAD to be sent directly from the begining of the chain ( BDplayer etc) to the end of the chain (TV) and audio could only be decoded by the "trusted receiver" (thanks MPAA/RIAA!!!) anyway as you have found out the only way to get the audio to go through your preferred device, is to use a none HDMI/CP output like ToS or coax... the BIG issue with this is you are limited to basically DVD quality (48khz 7.1) no sexy 24bit 96khz channels for YOU! bah!

for 99.9999999996% of the movie watching plethora that is perfectly fine for the rest of us nut-jobs we want the best probably because a.) it is available and b.) because we hate to be denied ANYTHING *LOL* and finally g.) because it sounds bloody awesome ( even if physics and biology would explain otherwise *LOL*)

i was looking at a number of at least 1.3a compliant recievers so i could do the same since my TV sucks balls for audio ( not the best picture compared to modern sets either but i am not spending good cash anytime soon it does reasonable 1080 so it is fine by me)

i was looking at a few sony and pioneer amps too but were all a bit too expensive right now...

the good news is pretty much any one you will buy should sound absolutely fine with your current setup i have JBL northridge bookshelves for my front 3 ( or had until i finished my plutos) and although they are not the same as the venues they are along the same lines ( the pro audio guys designed the most recent JBL line so they sound much more like Euro monkey coffins then US boomers! as long as the new amp has the power to drive the 7 channels fine (110 w/p/c is normally fine for most people add in a 2 - 500 sub or 2 and you got some thumping for LFE!) i personally love the yamaha line they are very respectable amps, especially in their proce point ( and as mentioned i defy almost anyone to be able to tell amps apart in a double blind ABX ad normal levels)

HDMI being digital means no loss in the transmission the only thing i am always nervous about is sync, but most amps now have the delay for the sync ( the audio get processed either slower or faster then the pic so the audio track is out of sequence with the video usually by a matter of a few hundreths of a second but can make movies look like bad foreign dubs)

if you do not listen to really high SPL music and movies (read ear bleed level) then i would find the yammy find and the new set perfect for those who are not as picky as to how their stuff sounds ( harmon being the parent compnay of JBL so it cannot sound too bad *LOL* though not like a full range setup like you have... but still respectable for the majority of people.

anyway thats my $1.50 worth looks like a good choice... imo and hopefully an improvement over the current setup ( 1 cable to rule them all!)

[Hellcat]

I couldn't have said it any better dig! BTW: Do you know anything about HDMI audio lag on the Sony Bravia XBR-4 series?

[Drayu]

Thanks for the input everyone.

Digi,
I am definitely keeping my JBL set up, I am just wondering about the amp being less w/p/c and if it would have a noticeable impact on sound. I like the idea of adding new HD audio options and HDMI 1.4 to rule them all.
The HK speakers and sony would go to my parents.

[sir_digalot]

90 W/p/c should be fine the venue series has ok sensativity (90db) so unless you run your current setup at full volume ( god bless your ears *LOL*) you should not notice anything much yammys have great capacitance so they can handle fairly meaty speakers, my old 2 channel yammy in the uk was powering some 84db missions and i had complaints from the neighbours it was only rates at 75 w/p/c.. my current jbls fill the street with sound (better then the disco we had at our block party) and my 100 w sony was only 2/3rds :D

generally unless you are hardcore, anything over about 50 or 60 w/p/c is enough to give you a headache after a while, and then it is more to do with the dynamic range of the sound and the amps capacitance ( to keep up with the current hungry low notes) without distortion or clipping)

I have not head anything about audio lag on the bravia, though most of the TV's and amps i know of now ( at least new ones not like my old thing) have a sync setting on it ususaly lag is when you run a seperate audio signal from a source to an amp and a hdmi/cp source to a TV at that point it is the amp that needs the sync adjusting

[kilroy0097]

Kind of a tangent for members that might be novice types.

1. On my digital Cable box there is a special setting to send direct audio signal to my receiver without first monkeying with it. Seem to now decode correctly when I watch different TV shows.

2. Many receivers now have a mic input and a long wired mic device that is used to set up initial sound automatically. Putting this mic in the sweet spot and running the test will auto tune your channels automatically. Some like to tweak manually after this sets initial settings.

3. Speak wires that come with any system usually suck (18 gauge crap) and hence I upgraded to 16 gauge myself because I didn't need any wire longer than 60 feet for my setup. Unless you are a supreme bad ass audiophile, copper wire with good protective sheathing will probably work for you. Go to Radio Shack and pick up yourself a roll or two of the proper gauge speaker wire. Some swear by Monster Cable brand. Personally I think they are over priced and you can find equal rated wires online for cheaper.

The experts suggest the following.
Distance from speaker to amplifier - Gauge
Less than 80 feet - 16 gauge
80 to 200 feet - 14 gauge
More than 200 feet - 12 gauge

Never get shielded wire for the house. For one shielding in stereo equipment is a myth and useless unless you have a high powered transformer pumping high impedance through your house and around your stereo wires. Even then if it's not itself grounded then the shielding part of the system is useless and might even causes a short if long enough and has loose wires. Shielded wiring is used in cars, planes, boats and other locations that have extremely variable static charge, power output and the such like perhaps concert halls or stadiums. Never understood why some one came up with the idea that shielded wiring would help at all in a normal home. Just a waste of money and a myth.

Speaker wire cable Banana plug connectors are an option to use. Depends on your setup in my opinion. If you disconnect and connect a lot then plugs I think would be important. Also for some initial setup is just easier with plugs since it's sometimes damn hard to get speaker wire to sit correctly in sideways speaker connections on the back of receivers. I did it without plugs but if I had to do it again multiple times I would get plugs and be done with it. Others say to never use bare wire as your final connections and instead use banana plugs or spade lug connectors because you will have more surface area of contact. They also say to get the plugs with gold plating because they are better conductors. I'm sure there is some truth in that, I was just lazy and didn't get any.

4. Always use string to map out wire placement and length before cutting wire.

5. Also get a powered sub-woofer. For those that buy speakers separate this is rarely an issue but for those that buy HTB (Home Theater in a Box) systems, make sure that sub is powered. 10" Sub is enough for most homes. 12" if you want that extra bounce in the stomach area during large explosions.

6. There is a small difference between 5.1 and 7.1 systems when it comes to "current" movies. I don't care what you may "think" but there are few DVDs out there that come with true 7.1 audio encoding. Now with Bluray this "might" become more standard but for now, for me, there is no significant difference. That being said, I bought a 7.1 system and I have two of the speakers sitting in the cabinet unused and instead have a 5.1 speaker setup. For simple reason, there are less wires to worry about, my setup in my living room does not support placement of a 7.1 setup very easily at all and lastly because of the encoding debacle on DVDs I mentioned earlier.

7. Get 1.4 HDMI or higher. Shouldn't be an issue on newer systems.

8. 3D is a fad and I disbelieve it exists on home entertainment systems. Hence why I don't even bother looking at that 3D pass through option on receivers.

That's all I could think of in one sitting and rambling on.

[Vitiator]

4. Always use string to map out wire placement and length before cutting wire.


I love this one.

[sir_digalot]

pretty spot on, depending on your want and the price, i have found that simple house wire ( of the right guage) is perfectly fine, in the uk instead of spending a whole lot of money on dedicated speaker cable, i got the same guage in regualt copper wire for about a fifth the cost.

The only person to try and say it was inferior was the sales-goon at the local hi-fi shop, but then again he was not really the brightest bulb in the chendelier.

i use 16 guage now that was actually the same price as at home depot as the other 16 guage stuff, however i do not need it with the plutos as they give a 300 ohm load to the amp, (they are active) so i could get away with almost phone wire *LOL* (j/k)

i agree 3D, not really that worthwhile, if it "takes" it will only take as naked eye 3D and when they stop trying to make films to f- you up in the head with the effect it might be ok, but i am not running out to get a new TV anytime soon for it besides there is not a TV big enough to compete with the all encompassing IMAX screen unless you are sitting 3 inches away from it, then the wife/hubby/might get annoyed that you are blocking their view *LOL*

LOTR is the only DVD we have with DTS-EX which uses 6.1 (the rear 2 channels are "matrixed" as a mono channel, i will admit it is ok, but, wit ha properly configured 5.1 you will barely notice the extra pair of speakers, and normally they are so crappy they sound aweful and dissimilar to the others and actually break up the effect instead of enhcance it.


as with everything else, most of it is simply myth, wives tales and hocus-pocus, often designed to make you buy something you do not need... As i ahve explained to my boss and associated people with more money then knowledge, you are spending thousands of dollars on equipment that by in far surpasses any capability of the origional recording or mastering equipment, and, in many cases some of the origional recording stuff is held together with ducktape and a bit of cut up mains chord, and somehow you are trying to get something out of it that is not there.

the most important thing to someone is that if it sounds/looks good to YOU then it is right for YOU spending $$$$$$$$ on the top of the line stuff might not actually suit your listening and viewing style, but because you spent the money on it you will swear it is just as awesome as something that cost 1/3rd as much.

the only thing i wish is that more low level stuff would be balanced, but it is generally not worth while for the expense, often simply tightly twisting the wire pairs will do a good job in cancelling any exsessive noise... and again, 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of people would never ever ever know anyway

[kilroy0097]

Oh and a good bit of advice. Most locations where you buy this equipment uses connectors that are budget minded. i.e. they take something mid range or lower and use it to connect all the speakers, components, computer equipment etc.

So if it looks good in the store take a peak at their wires. You'll see what I mean. Obviously you don't need a $50 wire if they are using $25 wire and it looks great.

The only places they use top of the line stuff is if they are displaying top of the line equipment in a special section meant to "Wow" you. It's a dog and pony show.

[Drayu]

great stuff! Thanks all! I am really considering this buy now as it will benefit my parents and myself. I am not worried about 3D, but I do want the capability for the receiver to handle all video. I like clean wire setups, and right now I am far from that. As for the 7.1 vs 5.1, I have 7 speakers, so I use them, but I bought them on sale at BB for a great price, and they are great sounding speakers (to me, and that is who is important).

[EANeuspeed]

Cerwin Vega speakers are really good. I have two in my living room and its like being at a movie theater when we watch any show.

[Drayu]

thanks all. I think i am going to jump in on this deal today.

[Drayu]

purchased. setting up tomorrow.