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View Full Version : Wow. Just...wow (high schoolers, parents, and college kids)



Al_Capowned
06-23-2005, 11:53 AM
I usually don't talk about this kind of stuff, but this just kind of shocked me. I guess there really IS a permanent record.


Pentagon Creating Student Database
Recruiting Tool For Military Raises Privacy Concerns

By Jonathan Krim
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Page A01

The Defense Department began working yesterday with a private marketing firm to create a database of high school students ages 16 to 18 and all college students to help the military identify potential recruits in a time of dwindling enlistment in some branches.

The program is provoking a furor among privacy advocates. The new database will include personal information including birth dates, Social Security numbers, e-mail addresses, grade-point averages, ethnicity and what subjects the students are studying.


The data will be managed by BeNow Inc. of Wakefield, Mass., one of many marketing firms that use computers to analyze large amounts of data to target potential customers based on their personal profiles and habits.

"The purpose of the system . . . is to provide a single central facility within the Department of Defense to compile, process and distribute files of individuals who meet age and minimum school requirements for military service," according to the official notice of the program.

Privacy advocates said the plan appeared to be an effort to circumvent laws that restrict the government's right to collect or hold citizen information by turning to private firms to do the work.

Some information on high school students already is given to military recruiters in a separate program under provisions of the 2002 No Child Left Behind Act. Recruiters have been using the information to contact students at home, angering some parents and school districts around the country.

School systems that fail to provide that information risk losing federal funds, although individual parents or students can withhold information that would be transferred to the military by their districts. John Moriarty, president of the PTA at Walter Johnson High School in Bethesda, said the issue has "generated a great deal of angst" among many parents participating in an e-mail discussion group.

Under the new system, additional data will be collected from commercial data brokers, state drivers' license records and other sources, including information already held by the military.

"Using multiple sources allows the compilation of a more complete list of eligible candidates to join the military," according to written statements provided by Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke in response to questions. "This program is important because it helps bolster the effectiveness of all the services' recruiting and retention efforts."

The Pentagon's statements added that anyone can "opt out" of the system by providing detailed personal information that will be kept in a separate "suppression file." That file will be matched with the full database regularly to ensure that those who do not wish to be contacted are not, according to the Pentagon.

But privacy advocates said using database marketers for military recruitment is inappropriate.

"We support the U.S. armed forces, and understand that DoD faces serious challenges in recruiting for the military," a coalition of privacy groups wrote to the Pentagon after notice of the program was published in the Federal Register a month ago. "But . . . the collection of this information is not consistent with the Privacy Act, which was passed by Congress to reduce the government's collection of personal information on Americans."

Chris Jay Hoofnagle, West Coast director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, called the system "an audacious plan to target-market kids, as young as 16, for military solicitation."

He added that collecting Social Security numbers was not only unnecessary but posed a needless risk of identity fraud. Theft of Social Security numbers and other personal information from data brokers, government agencies, financial institutions and other companies is rampant.

"What's ironic is that the private sector has ways of uniquely identifying individuals without using Social Security numbers for marketing," he said.

The Pentagon statements said the military is "acutely aware of the substantial security required to protect personal data," and that Social Security numbers will be used only to "provide a higher degree of accuracy in matching duplicate data records."

The Pentagon said it routinely monitors its vendors to ensure compliance with its security standards.

Krenke said she did not know how much the contract with BeNow was worth, or whether it was bid competitively.

Officials at BeNow did not return several messages seeking comment. The company's Web site does not have a published privacy policy, nor does it list either a chief privacy officer or security officer on its executive team.

According to the Federal Register notice, the data will be open to "those who require the records in the performance of their official duties." It said the data would be protected by passwords.

The system also gives the Pentagon the right, without notifying citizens, to share the data for numerous uses outside the military, including with law enforcement, state tax authorities and Congress.

Some see the program as part of a growing encroachment of government into private lives, particularly since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"It's just typical of how voracious government is when it comes to personal information," said James W. Harper, a privacy expert with the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. "Defense is an area where government has a legitimate responsibility . . . but there are a lot of data fields they don't need and shouldn't be keeping. Ethnicity strikes me as particularly inappropriate."

Yesterday, the New York Times reported that the Social Security Administration relaxed its privacy policies and provided data on citizens to the FBI in connection with terrorism investigations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/22/AR2005062202305.html

Nsane
06-23-2005, 12:10 PM
All i have to say is if the draft is brought back ill make sure im too out of shape for them to want me (or just dodge it) plus i havefact that i have flat feet.

Nelle
06-23-2005, 12:12 PM
Err.... too long to read....

MajorPayne
06-23-2005, 12:15 PM
I have flatfeet and a bad back, YAY! Oh wait, thats not good.

moldykorn
06-23-2005, 12:43 PM
Big brother is watching.



Flat feet dont mean shit to a recruiter. Trust me, ive already talked to one.

monos
06-23-2005, 02:51 PM
The First thing that comes to mind is the Privacy act of 1974 (might be wrong on the year) this act bars anyone from giving another party your SSN so basically you can be required to provide it in return for services i.e. banking, credit, welfare, govt aid ETC. but non of these private businesses or government agencies can give your SSN to anyone else. that is a very vague description but you get the idea. doubt that this will pass constitutional muster in the courts

Nsane
06-23-2005, 02:53 PM
Flat feet dont mean shit to a recruiter. Trust me, ive already talked to one.
Well then I'll have to cut my feet OFF.

monos
06-23-2005, 03:02 PM
Flat feet dont mean shit to a recruiter. Trust me, ive already talked to one.
Well then I'll have to cut my feet OFF.

i really hope you are just goofing because if you would really rather cut your feet off or dodge the draft than step up and and kick in as repayment for all the freedom's you have maybe you should go live somewhere else. i am sorry if this make anyone mad but as a veteran i find these statements upsetting and disturbing, i do not agree with many of the U.S. government policies but would not condone avoiding service even though my 18 year son would be drafted if the draft were to be instituted.

Nsane
06-23-2005, 03:07 PM
Yea it was a misguided attempt at a joke. The second I hear that the draft has been reinstated Im moving out of the US.

monos
06-23-2005, 03:13 PM
Yea it was a misguided attempt at a joke. The second I hear that the draft has been reinstated Im moving out of the US.

So again i say you just wanna reap all the benefits and then leave if asked to provide service to your country in return?

Nsane
06-23-2005, 03:15 PM
No, it's just that the draft would force us to join, joing should be our choice and if the government wants to tell us its no longer a choice but it is manditory, I don't want to live here anymore.

GorroXXII
06-23-2005, 03:32 PM
No, it's just that the draft would force us to join, joing should be our choice and if the government wants to tell us its no longer a choice but it is manditory, I don't want to live here anymore.

My father and uncle were both to be drafted, my father joined the Air Force before he was drafted(he wanted a choice), because, from what I have learned, once drafted you dont have a choice of what you want to do, you go where they say(where is the freedom in that) my father is an engineer/mechanic and was able to do what he liked, where my uncle didnt get that opportunity. They were both in the Vietnam war, my father almost killed and still has fragments of little pieces of metal in his hand to prove it, war changes people, I didnt know my father before, but my mother did, after he came home he was different(very different). I just say this after reading everyones posts... I personally disagree with the draft, it is wrong, and it goes against the freedoms we are given.

If I was put into a situation where I would have to defend my freedom or leave, of course I would stand my ground, it is the way of our life, and I would want the same for my children.

p00p
06-23-2005, 04:55 PM
I personally disagree with the draft, it is wrong, and it goes against the freedoms we are given.

If I was put into a situation where I would have to defend my freedom or leave, of course I would stand my ground, it is the way of our life, and I would want the same for my children.

As being one of the very few liberal citizens of the great red state of Nebraska, I'd have to say I agree here. Service should be voluntary, not obligtory. Something out of Starship Trooper where service has it's citizenry benefits would be more to my liking.

I *BRIEFLY* thought about joining military in higschool. However, in this current conflicts we are in, I would not join voluntarily. Getting in another country's civil conflicts (read government change) does not constitute a threat to our freedoms imho. A guard service would be more appealing to myself along with many other canidates, however, they're getting sent away from home, which is basically against what they signed up for.

Now if we were truely being attacked by another country, sure I'd sign up and help defend. However, this isn't the senerio that we're in right now, so I'll refrain.

With all that being said, I'd probably be the last that they'd draft due to being married, with a kid, 24, in college, and 20lbs overweight (hey, give me a break, I lost 65 since Jan. :) )