Memory upgrade

[atomicbob]

How do these Dell parts stack up with aftermarket stuff?

Is the last one the one I want to get?

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/memconfigproductlisting.aspx?icompatid=160065&c=us&l=en&cs=19

:dunno:

[atomicbob]

Or how about this?

http://www.memorygiant.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.memorySearch&model_id=-1046&memory_id=-19775

Or is all this going to outrun my processor (P4 533mhz).

Basically I want to upgrade (yes, this Dell) as much as I can the first time.

Thanks for the insite I know you geniouses will provide.

:D

[atomicbob]

Or this maybe??

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=90603&Category_Code=AllNexus

[wihadmin]

It's hard to help you AB unless we know the model number and what kind of RAM your system takes. Best bet, pull out the manual and see what it recommends.

Dude, is it a Dell?

[atomicbob]

Yes, it is a dell.

And I hesitate to try and make more of it then it can be.

Is a gamer machin from scratch the way I need to head, or is the POS IU have worth dinkin with???

I hate fixin up a volkswagon, ya knwo what I mean?

I get the feelin that my procesore sux. And no matter what I load in aftermarket, the thing will blow. But you pros got me all worried.

I suxors bad enough that I don't need a bad machine holding me back when BF2 launches. If my stuff is good, then fiine. I just need good advice. I do not want problems when this goes live.

TIA

[atomicbob]

I think I will buy the whole new machine.

:yaya:

All I need is somone with snuff to tell me it is kickarse.

:jester:

[wihadmin]

I dont' see how in hell you're going to be able to run BF2 on your 533Mhz machine. The minimum for BF2 is a P4 1.7Ghz or something close to that.

You're better off getting a new rig. Get at least 1GB of RAM. That's very important for the Battlefield games. Get a video card with lots of onboard RAM. I think BF2 will run good on a 6800GT as some of their demo machines are using this card.

[Motoxpro]

just build one... you can build a whole sytem thats like 600$ and its kick arse

[atomicbob]

Well, I got the 6800GT already. I guess that's a start. Wish I knew more about building computers.

[FozzyBear]

Bob,

Just follow the instructions, and I'm not being sarcastic. It's really not that hard. I was scared to death on the first one I built, but you will save $100's.

newegg.com is a good place to look for parts.

And you have your own private (well sort of) help desk here. :thumbsup:

[atomicbob]

I'm gonna need it. First note to self.....not everything you find online is current.....

http://ok.essortment.com/gamingpc_rsmx.htm

Thought I was learning something until I saw the date at the bottom. LOL

I'm not worried about putting it together. It's the parts selection that boggles my brain. I no speakum Mhz and front side buss.

[wihadmin]

I will go against the grain and recommend AB not to build one. No offense to AB, but building a computer is time consuming and does require a bit of in-depth hardware knowledge.

In order to build a fast stable computer, you have to be on top of the hardware, chipset scene. You have to know what CPU production # to match with which motherboard revision along with RAM manufacturer and production # of the piece of RAM you're buying. You can't just buy parts and throw them together. Sure they'll work, but you'll spend countless hours figuring out why it keeps locking up on you, why it blue screens, and why the freaking joystick doesn't work, or your CD/DVD burner won't burn reliably.

With that said, I've built countless gaming computers and emachines for myself, friends, and family. I've had my share of headaches when things don't go right. I also have had my share of joy when my products are running fast and stable for years.

Back to AB, from the types of questions that I see AB asked in the forums, I will recommend that AB go out and buy a gaming rig from a big name company like Dell or Alienware. The few $100 that you spent extra pays back big when you are online right away playing BF2 or CSS vs. sitting there trying to figure out why BF2 keeps crashing to desktop.

[atomicbob]

I like the way you think Mr. Admin. I don't want to work on stuff. I want to click buttons and make things go boom. :thumbsup:

I'll check out the alien website and run some by you guys for approval.

:D

[GorroXXII]

I bought my last PC from here, and I have been prety happy with them!

http://www.abspc.com/app/config.asp?mono=1883&view=2

That is where Drayu got his as well, this is all before the world of building our own PC's, but they are still a strong company, and I personally find Alienware, a litle too expensive

[GroovyDude]

I've always built my computers from scratch. The key is to get top quality components, don't just shop around for the cheapest.

That being said, I do usually run into a snag here or there when building these new machines. I brought in the last new year trying to figure out why my Windows XP installation kept "blue screening" on my new P4 rig running on an ASUS motherboard (the only MBs I will use). Turned out to be some sort of conflict between my parallel drives and a legacy bios setting. It wasn't an easy problem to correct and although I finally figured it out, it did cost me a whole lot of frustration!

If you don't have the time to spend troubleshooting and tweaking, your better off with a manufactured rig. Just keep in mind that you'll probably have to throw it out and get a new one in three years or so.

[atomicbob]

I don't even know how to view my bios. I hope I can some way to use this vid card I just got. I don't need two.

Sux living out here in the boonies in times like this.

[GorroXXII]

well if it is brand new, trying selling it, I am in the market for one myself, or you can keep it in your current machine, or buy a pc with a crappy card and swap them... the options are endless. :nuts:

[atomicbob]

Stupid games......I hate these games.

:x

[ResJudicata]

bob, this program will create a report about every aspect of your system

www.lavalys.com

check it out

[loopcycle]

is that 533MHz the bus speed?? Unless your machine is REALLY old, i dont think thats the processor speed.

i use Sandra to get system specs. go to this site and download Sandra Lite from one of the mirror sites, install and run it, and run the System Summary module. copy/paste the results here so we know what youre working with.

http://www.sisoftware.net/index.html?dir=dload&location=sware_dl_3264&langx=en&a=

[Bauer]

I don't think a P4 was ever made to operate at 533mhz. I believe the lowest was at the 1.0 - 1.4 ghz range.

[ResJudicata]

I don't think a P4 was ever made to operate at 533mhz. I believe the lowest was at the 1.0 - 1.4 ghz range.

i agree... hell i dont think they made any pIIs that slow

[atomicbob]

Wow, that sandra thing is awesome. NOt sure what all to do with it but the system scan said thi


Processor
Model : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
Speed : 2.39GHz
Performance Rating : PR2633 (estimated)
Type : Standard
L2 On-board Cache : 512kB ECC Synchronous, ATC, 8-way set, 64 byte line size, 2 lines per sector

Mainboard
Bus(es) : X-Bus AGP PCI IMB USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
MP Support : 1 CPU(s)
MP APIC : Yes
System BIOS : Dell Computer Corporation A03
System : Dell Computer Corporation Dimension 4600
Mainboard : Dell Computer Corp. 02Y832
Total Memory : 511MB DDR-SDRAM

Chipset 1
Model : Dell Computer Corp 82865G/PE/P, 82848P DRAM Controller / Host-Hub Interface
Front Side Bus Speed : 4x 133MHz (532MHz data rate)
Total Memory : 512MB DDR-SDRAM
Memory Bus Speed : 2x 166MHz (332MHz data rate)

Video System
Monitor/Panel : Plug and Play Monitor
Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
Imaging Device : hp psc 2170 series

Physical Storage Devices
Hard Disk : IC35L090AVV207-0 (75GB)
Hard Disk : HP psc 2175v USB Device
CD-ROM/DVD : HL-DT-ST CD-ROM GCR-8481B (CD 48X Rd)
CD-ROM/DVD : SONY CD-RW CRX216E (CD 66X Rd, 48X Wr)

Logical Storage Devices
Hard Disk (C:) : 74GB (40GB, 53% Free Space) (NTFS)
CD-ROM/DVD (D:) : N/A
CD-ROM/DVD (E:) : N/A
Removable Drive (F:) : N/A

Peripherals
Serial/Parallel Port(s) : 1 COM / 1 LPT
USB Controller/Hub : Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24D2
USB Controller/Hub : Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24D4
USB Controller/Hub : Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24D7
USB Controller/Hub : Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller
USB Controller/Hub : Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24DE
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Root Hub
USB Controller/Hub : USB Composite Device
USB Controller/Hub : USB Printing Support
USB Controller/Hub : USB Mass Storage Device
FireWire/1394 Controller/Hub : OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller
Keyboard : Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard
Mouse : Microsoft PS/2 Port Mouse (IntelliPoint)

MultiMedia Device(s)
Device : Creative Audigy Audio Processor (WDM)

Communication Device(s)
Device : Conexant SmartHSFi V92 56K DF PCI Modem

Printers and Faxes
Model : hp psc 2170 series
Model : Fax

Power Management
AC Line Status : On-Line

Operating System(s)
Windows System : Microsoft Windows XP/2002 Home (Win32 x86) 5.01.2600 (Service Pack 2)

Network Services
Adapter : Intel(R) PRO/100 VE Network Connection

Performance Tips
Tip 2546 : Large memory modules should be ECC/Parity.
Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.


Do I need to run some other scans?

P.S> What does this mean???


Warning 214 : System BIOS : BIOS is flash-able but surface-mounted. An unsuccessful flash may be fatal.
Finished Successfully : Yes

:dunno:

[Bonez]

P1 = 1 to 100mhz
P2 = 100 to 500
p3 = 500 - 1.2
celeron = 333 - 3.2ghz
p4 = 1ghz = 3.8

[ResJudicata]

looks like you just need 512MB DDR-SDRAM... 1 Gb is more than enough...

[SoReal]

From past experiences, FSB 533 is PC 2700, and FSB 800 is PC3200, easiest way to tell is open up PC and look at the ram.. Your processor is fine (So it seems) for BF2, because minimum is 1.7 according to WiH, which he probably got from the site, also: to be on the safe side I would get 1 more gig, not just 512, because the worst that could happen is (at newegg) cost you an extra 20 dollars, and what's an extra 20 if it's going to help 2x as much? Also, building a machine (which i've never done, only 15, and you smart alecs don't say you've been building PC's since you were 12) requires a good background of hardware parts; like matching AGP with AGP, and PCI with PCI instead of PCI-e.

However, I would recommend you just open that thing up and take a look at the ram and see if it says "PC3200 or PC2700". Also, with BIOS common keys are probably f4 and delete.. maybe more, but both my machines from Dell have been f4 or delete.. my current Dimension 4600 is delete, and i'm not sure why you want to access BIOS anyways, since normally if you are running winodws XP then your PC should auto recognize anything in your PC. Hope this helps..

[Bonez]

fsb and ram speed don't mean anything when dealing with intel boards, all the memory handling is done by the motherboard.

and pc3200 is 400mhz, pc2700 is 333mhz.

RD ram is 533, 800, 1066.

just don't mix and match pairs of diffrent speed ram, it will downclock the higher stick to match the lower.

[atomicbob]

Soooo.... one more question before I buy my new RAM.

I have 2 X 256 in there now, and two empty slots. Do I replace the two with a pair of 512s or can I get the same performance by adding and additional pair of 256s for a total of four?

Or is that something I will regret when I wish I had 4 x 512 later?

(And I'm still sweating the "possibly fatal" comments in my scan) :yuck:

[jwolly2]

Or is that something I will regret when I wish I had 4 x 512 later?

(And I'm still sweating the "possibly fatal" comments in my scan) :yuck:

The fact that you're asking this question probably gives you a good indication of the answer. :P

I'd probably go w/ 2 new sticks of 512 at a minimum. Since everyone else is throwing advice out there, I'd say don't skimp on the memory. Buy name brand, Kingston or Crucial. In my experience, I've had bad memory problems when I went w/ some generic memory to save a few bucks. When building a system, I'll never again skimp on memory or the power supply.

As for the possibly fatal comment, it's referring to flashing your bios. Basically, this is reprogramming the chip w/ a new bios version. Its not something that needs to be done often, and it is relatively safe if you take the right precautions, but if something goes wrong w/ the flash, your system can become unusable (since your BIOS basically controls everything). I wouldn't worry about it now. If you think you need to flash your BIOS (that just sounds dirty... :hump: ) a quick post here and a google search should give you enough info to tackle it.

[wihadmin]

I agree. 2 x 512MB modules will be good. 1.5GB will serve you well until the end of your computer's life.

[atomicbob]

Is this it?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141319&ATT=Memory+System+Memory&CMP=OTC-pricegrabbermerch

[atomicbob]

And while you guys are holding my hand, could you recommend a power supply? My 6800GT says I need 350w minimum, and mine is only 250w.

[Saur]

Look for an Enermax 550 or something like that, those are high quailty power sources.

http://xoxide.com/

They've got a nice selection of pretty goodies.

<3 Saur

[loopcycle]

bob,

you want PC2700 since you already have PC2700 in your system. your type of ram works in pairs so you should buy two sticks that are matched (either 2x 256s or 2x 512s). if you buy PC3200 it will be a waste because your slower ram (PC2700) will throttle down the faster ram anyway.

because you ram is DDR and 333MHz we know that you have PC2700, so no need to open the machine to look at it.

getting two 512s is probably a good idea because it will be the last ram upgrade needed until the entire machine is replaced down the road and the price difference is not that much from two 256s.

all ram manufacturers have their lower lines and upper lines. almost anything will work great in your system. some memory manufacturers that are highly regarded are:

crucial
corsair
ocz
mushkin
kingston

you will pay through the nose for ram with lower latency timing but you'll probably never notice the performance difference, so you probably shouldnt bother with top-of-the-line ram.

here's some links that you might consider:

http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-439&depa=1 (great reviews!)

http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-423&depa=1

[loopcycle]

And while you guys are holding my hand, could you recommend a power supply? My 6800GT says I need 350w minimum, and mine is only 250w.

hold off on the PS upgrade. is there a power switch on it?

if its anything like my old dell 8200, you wont be able to just pop any ol power supply in your dell. the problem is how most power supplies fit in the metal dell case. your PS probably doesnt have a switch, right?

i tried to replace my dell PS because i was worried about insufficient power. the problem was that the PS wouldnt fit right in the case. there was no cutout in the metal frame on the back to accomodate a power switch. i eventually tore my dell to bits, took the case out to the garage, and cut out some of the case in the back so i could slam an antec PS in it. i would not recommend doing this. its a lot of work, and you will probably have to go buy a tool (dremel) just to do this. and, if any metal shavings remain in the case after you put it together, you could do some real damage to the computer.

dell power supplies are underrated - that is, they can (supposedly) handle more than 250W. another way to put it: those 250W are a solid 250W of power (RMS, not peak). dell power supplies are supposed to be pretty good.

power supplys are not all created equal. it is much like amplifier or speaker ratings in the audio industry. If you go buy a cheapy amp rated at 300W and an expensive amp rated at 300W, you will probably notice a big difference. power ratings are used very deceptively and are not a reliable way of determining the actual power output or capacity of the PS.

and thats not all. power is divided across different voltages, or rails. you have a 3.3V, 5v, and 12v rails that are each allocated a certain amount of power from the supply. many newer devices, especially video cards, are hungry for power on the 12v rail. many power supplys, even though they look very strong (wattage rating), allocate low amounts of power to the 12V rail which does you no good if thats where you most need the power. any power supply that has a strong 12v rail is going to cost more, always.

back to the point about the dell PS. there are companies who make dell specific power supplies (which is mostly just a PS that fits in the case: no switch). they will charge you through the nose for these things and its probably not worth the money you will pay for it.

use the PS that you have and dont worry about the specs. if you have only one HD that will reduce power consumption. if you have only one cd/dvd drive that will reduce power consumption slightly too.

if everything works fine then you should be ok for now. there are diagnostic tools you can run that will monitor power consumption and health across the rails of your PS. maybe we can talk about that later.

[jwolly2]

Look for an Enermax 550 or something like that, those are high quailty power sources.

http://xoxide.com/

They've got a nice selection of pretty goodies.

<3 Saur

For anyone considering a PS, I second the Enermax suggestion. Pretty much the only brand I'll buy these days...

I'm not sure what the Dell cases are like, so I can't suggest what to go w/ there. Loopcycle already covered this in detail though.

[loopcycle]

And while you guys are holding my hand, could you recommend a power supply? My 6800GT says I need 350w minimum, and mine is only 250w.

one more thing i forgot: some of the dell power supplies have proprietary pin out assignments on them going to the motherboard that are NON-STANDARD. some people that have purchased third party power supplies have blown their dell motherboards when they turned them on. what sucks is that the plugs are identical and will fit.

i dont know about the 4600 motherboard. it just so happened that my 8200 used a standard ATX pin assignment so i could use any aftermarket PS (after i cut my case to make room for it).

there is a lot of info on the dell forums about this.

[atomicbob]

Like this one Saur?

http://xoxide.com/enermax-whisper-eg565p-ve-fma-v20-535w-psu.html

Thanks for the links Loop. I'm ordering the first one.

[ResJudicata]

i think you will need a BTX PS, thats the one my dell demesion 4700 uses... i had to do the same as you Bob since i got my 6800 GT

[loopcycle]

http://forums.us.dell.com

search for:

power supply 4600


it looks like your 4600 may be wired for a standard power supply, but dont take my word for it. you should do your own research.

if you dont know if the PS will fit, take a picture of the back of your case and post it here so i can see if its similar to mine.


******* [EDIT:]*********
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_upghw&message.id=29712&query.id=120549#M29712

http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=T425D

They are a little more, but not much more expensive than they used to be. Enermax are excellent PSUs. I have two of them. Also, PC Power and Cooling are excellent PSUs too.

***********************

[atomicbob]

http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=T425D

So this edit is the one I want to get? I sure don't need to cut no new holes in my case. lol

[loopcycle]

So this edit is the one I want to get?

it was suggested by someone on the dell forums. im sure there are other solutions out there. unless you are having problems, you dont need to replace your power supply. dont rush into that purchase. your current power supply is probably doing (and will continue to do) fine. take your time reading up on the dell forums.

[Redy]

I saved like a $1000 when I built mine, and I never had a problem until my video card crapped out. BTW, they shipped it back so I hope to have it up and running for the demo.

Research and like Fozzy said reading the directions was key.

[atomicbob]

You guys are a huge resource. Like you say, I'm not having power supply problems right now, but as long as the first sign of a problem isn't the thing catching on fire, I guess I can hold off. What are the symptoms of not enough power, anyway?

[ResJudicata]

i would get a new power supply...

MY dell had a 300W PS, and my card was not at full performance during that time period... it also had problems rendering, etc..., but after i got my 400W, everything was fine...

and we have almost the same card.... mine is PCIe, yours prob AGP

[loopcycle]

What are the symptoms of not enough power, anyway?

PSU problems are exremely difficult to diagnose if you cannot already detect spikes or weak rails with a PSU diagnostic tool. sometimes you will have random reboots or the machine will just shut off. other times you get random flaky unexpected behavior (cant boot into windows, etc) that cant be traced back to anything else.

when you boot into windows, your system is taxed pretty heavily. if you can get into windows and all your apps run fine then you should be ok. symptoms of lack of power or PSU problems do not result in slower performance, they usually kill whatever you are trying to do, so its pretty obvious.

here's a power calculator for whatever its worth:

http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/Power_Supply_Calculator.php?cmd=INTEL

[Mad5cout]

Uh, not that i'ma pro at this but I have recently done research upgrading memory for my Dell computer. First, Bob you can goto Dell's website and go into accessories... then memory I think, and then they have a memory calulator. you put in your product info and then it spits out the Dell versions of products compatible with your machine. I then went to Newegg.com and plugged those into their memory search engine and it popped up everything they had for those specs.

As for the upgrade, I had to watch out for two things when purchasing. Some of Dell's motherboards from about 3 years ago can only use a certain amount of memory on 1 card. For example, my board could take 2x512 but not a single 1G card. Second, there is a max your board can handle. My machine could only have a max of 2x512 for a total of 1G (with only two slots). Reading what you have, I would keep the orginal chips in and add the two 512's -- like WiHAdmin was saying, for a total of 1.5G. BUT check your manuel under upgrading memory. It should tell you what your maxes are so you don't waste money buying 2G of RAM for a comp that can only utilize half that.

[atomicbob]

Thanks duide. I was wondering about that. I mean keeping the 512 have noe (2 x 256) and "adding" two 512's. The two 512's are ono thre way, but shold I remove the 2 256's that are in the or leave them> Is that bad?
Do they not play well with others? I have two emty slots.

:dunno:

And again, I can''t express the appreciation that I have for all the help you guys are providing. Without you guys I would be paying some tech to give me this info.

My only hope is you don't tire of my nube questions until I have this thing going.

[wihadmin]

yes AB. keep the 2x256 that you have now in the slots. stick in the 2x512 into the 2 empty slots. thsi will give you 1.5GB of RAM.

[atomicbob]

Awesome. That's what I'll do. Deliveruy should 3-4 days, i.e. about next friday.

Then I will proceed to kill everything in my path.

Until then, and only until then, I will continue to be cannon fodder for all you nubes that falsely believe I am an easy target.

:yaya:

[atomicbob]

Got the new RAM in just now. So to put it in, let's get me real clear on what I want to do.

I have four slots right now. A 256 in the first slot, then an empty slot, then a 256 then an empty.

Since y'all told me to leave the 256's in the and just add these news one, do I want to leave them where they are and just plug the new ones in the currently empty slots, or do I want to move one to where they are side by side......or does it matter?

And I just push these in the slot and I'm done?

Thanks

:thumbsup:

[wihadmin]

Leave the 2 there. Do not move them. Chances are those 2 slot are paired. Just get the orientation correct on the stick and slot and push them in. Some slots will have little tabs at the ends that you use to secure the sticks.

[atomicbob]

Cool!! I'm going in. If I don't back, you'll know I did something bad.

:jester:

[GorroXXII]

The moment of truth is upon you... Fair well Bob it was nice knowing you :D , oh while you are there, can you grab that video card for me :rockon:

[atomicbob]

Click click....they are in and it seems to work.

I don't knw yet what benefits I'm seeing, since the only place I really paid attention to ping was inferno.

If it helps me on that map, I will be happy. ANything has to be better tan 15 fps.

Most maps are now 65-80 fps, and I think they were in the 35-45 range before. I could be trippin too. As long as BF2 is playable on my machine I am glad to have upgraded.

:jester:

[wihadmin]

The biggest noticable difference will be in the loading time and the frame rate in POE and prolly in BF2 as well!