PDA

View Full Version : -:|[ Saur's Guide to Shooting



Saur
04-20-2005, 07:45 PM
In light of my current ban, and with time to burn, I've taken it upon myself to finally get around to typing up this shooting guide I'd been planning on for some time. It has been created at the request of a handful of regulars from the WiH community. Some of whom I've already offered a few suggestions, and with noticable improvement.

Therefore, I now offer the community these simple principles to follow to keep you and your buddies alive in the (very) hostile world of Counter-Strike: Source.

This is kinda lengthy, so you may not want to read it in one sitting. Instead, take it a step at a time.

Here I've broken it down into the 3 core sections that I feel are relevant to better shooting.

1.) Hitboxes
2.) SAFE Shooting
3.) Training
+ notes

And so we begin...

-----------------
HITBOXES
-----------------

First and foremost, if you're going to start shooting accurately, you must make sure your hitboxes are in good alignment. This requires tweaking a few client-side command variables (cvars) to optimize your computers networking abilities. These are the 7 Core Cvars I feel are necessary for more accurate shooting:

rate
cl_rate
cl_cmdrate
cl_updaterate
cl_interp/cl_interpolate
cl_smooth

If you want a more detailed explanation of these cvars, you can check here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?s=8a33f6e0a1dd7b8d4805c88a40ea1cc0&threadid=272677


For now, I'll simply offer my suggested values for these cvars. I assume the vast majority of you are on broadband, therefore, I'll provide values for broadband only. If you require further assistance, feel free to PM me.

I recommend:

rate 18000
cl_rate 18000
cl_cmdrate 85
cl_updaterate 64 //(wih's max allowed updaterate)
cl_interp 0 //(or .015625 [from 1/cl_updaterate])
cl_interpolate 1 //(1 = use cl_interp, 0 = don't use cl_interp. Turn to 0 if having severe hitbox issues)
cl_smooth 0

I went ahead and commented the comments out in case any of you decided to go ahead and C&P this to a .cfg. I suggest you put it in your autoexec.cfg. If you don't have one, make one via Notepad. Also, you'll wanna put the autoexec.cfg into your yournamehere/counter-strikesource/cstrike/cfg dir. If you name it "autoexec.cfg" it'll automatically apply the settings for you when you start CS:S, otherwise you'll have to type them into console manually every time you start CS:S.

You may have to experiment with the values a bit, but if you decide to, please read about their properties first at the link I provided above before you make any drastic chances. And to dispel a current myth, a cl_cmdrate of 5, 1, 0, or any low number like that isn't adviseable. While it does mask your ping and allow you to play on servers w/ ping limits, it hinders your performance as a player by limiting client-server communication. You can test this yourself by lowering your cmdrate and turning cl_interpolate to 0.

Now on to the juicy bits....


-----------------
SAFE Shooting
-----------------
This is my original acronym to good shooting in fps games. It works. I know, because I follow it to the letter. If it didn't, I wouldn't be as good as I am as a shooter (though I have a much longer road to quality shooting than many of you may believe).

In the beginning, it stood for Stop, Aim, Fire, Evade. It's a good message, but not quite what I was looking for. Sure, it's simple, and powerful, but the connotations weren't quite what I wanted. Anyway, I was reading one of Marcinko's books when I came upon one of his many one-liners and it stuck with me. As an adaptation for CS:S, it became:

Sight, Acquire, Fire, Evade

Now it has everything I could have wanted it to have. Allow me to break it down and explain it more thoroughly.

1.) Sight: You can't hit what you can't see, as the saying goes. This is why flashbangs, when properly utilized, are devastating tools of war. If used in a singular sense, sight merely means seeing, but, to take it a step further, it can also be used to mean mental perception, or awareness. Both definitions apply because you must be able to perceive the location of the enemy. I believe this to be the most important aspect of SAFE shooting.

In order to improve your "sight" you must develop situational awareness. Let's take a look at how the military defines SA.

According to the Navy, "Situational Awareness refers to the degree of accuracy by which one's perception of his current environment mirrors reality." I couldn't have said it better myself. Lol, though I must warn you... a developed SA will get you plenty of wallhax accusations. Many folks across many forums have remarked on my ability to find the "last man". I blame SA because it's SAFE. Situational Awareness Finds Enemies.

So, in order to have a strong SA, you've got to depend on your perception of actual reality -- of what you think is happening and what IS happening regardless of what you think.

Your perception (or Sight) therefore must come from not only your eyes, but by everything made available to you. Sight, sound, Radar, an AK shot, death of a team mate from the corner of your screen to the blip that just disappeared from your radar, where your team mates are positioned on your radar, and the areas you suspect are occupied. All this is information.

It's only fitting that we live in the Information Age. Business is capitalizing on it, the military is, our everday lives are affected by it one way or another. So it's only natural to employ the skills we have in reading information and applying it to our advantage in this game. It sounds complex, but it's not.

It's simple, and that's what makes it SAFE.

Pay attention to your environment. Know what the fux, who the fux, when the fux, how the fux, where the fux, and most of all, why the fux. You've got a HUD, CS:S has sounds, you know the maps, you know the camping hot spots, you know the Regulars and their favorite spots, you know so act off of what you know. Check those hot spots, watch for rushes, know when the enemy is afraid to come forward.

The way you use your information should be free of bias, but anchored with intelligent anticipation. That is the way to develop SA. That is the way of perception. That is the way of Sight.

2.) Acquire: Now that you know how to find your enemy, you must now know how to acquire him as a target. Acquiring your target means more than simply putting him in your crosshairs, although that's the key concept behind it. It's the step before actually fragging your opponent. The calm before the storm, the focus before the action. You literally prepare your opponent to be destroyed.

The most undesireable position is to be aiming at your opponent while he's trying to aim at you. A square up toe-to-toe match up. This is simply a test of aiming ability, a skill easily enough developed (over time, that is :P) and I will go over that later on in this guide.

The BEST position is to be aiming at your opponent from his flank or back, catching him unaware. Sweeping away all his skill and techical know-how, dropping him in one fell shot, and moving on.

You do this primarily by timing. In order to have good timing, you'll have to know the map well, the "spawns" well, and the popular movements of both teams. Knowing the maps is default, basic stuff, knowing the spawns means knowing exactly where you are when you spawn at your spawn, and, if from that position, you can beat your opponents to another position.

A good example of this is on Office. When as a T, you spawn between the front double doors, you can easily rush to the office area before the CTs and set up your ambush there.

But it doesn't necessarily have to be an out-right surprise flanking maneuver. You also have the option of engaging the enemy directly, being careful to stay out of his crosshairs. Again, on Office, an excellent position for this is the Bathroom at the end of Long Hall. you can successfully guard both the Short Hall leading to Office or the Sniper Hall from the Stairs. (If you're skilled, you can even watch Garage forces, but if not, your team should be able to hold that easily enough).

The cabinets are what provide you the cover you need for the advantage. They guard you from snipers, and remove a firing angle from your opposition. You, however, can shoot them as they enter from the stairs, or as they move into position to assault the Long Hall. Most of the time, you can catch them off guard this way.

You acquire your target by disrupting his timing and using your own to your advantage. Just when they think its clear to come Sniper Hall, you throw a few rounds at'em and rush back to Short Hall as their grenades go off in Bathroom. But you don't stop, because as you round the corner, there's a couple in Short Hall either aiming for you or for Long Hall. You take them out as well, and quickly move back in position. You do this back 'n forth until A.) They're all dead, B.) You're overwhelmed and must retreat or C.) one hall clears.

C is your objective. Say Sniper hall is clear, you move behind the cabinets, flash the stairway (in case of stragglers) then move to the hall junctioning the two and flank the Short Hall force. Vice versa. (There's a tidbit for Jeff who wanted some Office ideas :P)

Now that's simply a tactic for holding Office as a T, but it applies to SAFE. SAFE is tactics. Everything in SAFE is interconnected and blends in with each other. But the concepts you should remember are upsetting your opponents rhythm, whether by harassment, surprise, threat 'n danger (as in 'oh fux i have a glock and he has an awp :O') and developing your own rhythm (such as the spawn example).

You can develop your own rhythm in all instances, whether spawn rushing, weapon combos, routes, camp spots, etc. But remember to keep your rhythm fluid and changing, and not stagnant and predictable. Most of all, don't allow your opponent to disrupt you. Take comfort in your abilities and know that the opponents you face have nothing to do with whether or not you can take them down.

3.) Fire Ahh, yes. The destruction of opposition. My personal favorite among the SAFE methods -- and it just makes sense. The SAFEst way to keep yourself safe is to eliminate the threats against you. And in CS:S, you can't negotiate the threat away. Oh, heaven's no. You blast it away.

But Firing in CS:S can be a little different than in other games. Again, I'll digress a moment to remind you that my former acronym was Stop, Aim, Fire, Evade. I chose "Stop" because I felt it was integral to not move while you took your shots. But then the aforementioned realization came to me that it's not always the case. There have been many times where I've had to keep moving and shooting, tactically of course, to defeat my opponents. As any of you popular rushers would know, it's and integral feature to SMGs. And lately, I've been experimenting with running shots with the deagle and have had marked success.

But to serve the purposes of better shooting, and as a tribute to one of my favorite weapons, I'll say this about the AK-47. You want to do a 2 round burst MAX at medium to longer ranges ranges. The first shot is extraordinarly accurate, and the second shot is usually the killer. Sometimes it takes up to 4 hits to kill with the ak. That's only 2 bursts.

Be wary even at closer ranges. A fully automatic AK is horribly inaccurate. 5 round bursts... very. 3-4 maybe. And don't jump with the thing for crying out loud. :T

Fire, strafe left, fire, strafe right, fire. 6 shots, more than enough to kill anything that moves. Simple. Powerful. That's why I like the AK. It's SAFE to use.

4.) Evade: Also, in order to survive in CS:S, there will be times when you and your team are overwhelmed, outgunned, and outnumbered. But it's possible that you can not only survive the situation, but thrive on it, and become better for it. I can attest to this personally because I've single-handedly decimated 9, 10, 11, and even 12 players flying solo. Against a well organized team, it's almost hopeless, but since for the vast majority of the time you'll be playing in pubs, hopefully you'll be able to play off their inherent lack of communication.

Always try to use as much cover as possible, or at least unique areas that are unexpected by the opposition. When you fire your shots, move. When they fire at you, move. When you know they're gonna rush, move and get in position to mow'em down. Always keep moving, pausing only to destroy your enemy (ambushes/aiming/firing/etc), whether by walking or running. And don't forget to use the sound you make to your advantage. Just like Snake in Metal Gear, lure your opponents to their doom by running or firing a shot, or reloading or something. When strong, appear weak as Sun Tzu says.

When you're being over run, dance circles by running all the way around them (something unexpected) instead of "away" from them. Or when rounding a corner, immediately stop, crouch, hug the wall, and shoot'em as they rush around it expecting you to be long down the hall. Evading isn't hiding. It's repositioning yourself to gain tactical advantage and then taking the initiative.

Finally, that concludes SAFE shooting. I hope it wasn't too much of a disappointment, some of the principles may seem barren or obvious, but really they're overlooked and underappreciated.

I know that was a lot, but to recap:

Sight
- Situational Awareness
- Check camping hotspots intelligently
- Watch Radar
- Listen to Sound
- Pay attention to frag reports on screen
Acquire
- Timing, aiming, & breaking rhythm.
- Win by surprise.
Fire
- Fire intelligently by weapon or situation
- burst shooting for rifles
- up close 'n personal for SMGs/shotties.
Evade
- Keep moving
- Set up ambushes


-----------------
ON TRAINING
-----------------

I know some of you may have been disappointed by the lack of "something-to-do" with the above material, that's coming up shortly. But seriously, read the above if you haven't. It's good stuff. Most importantly, think that I've written this just for you. Don't try to memorize everything here as a guide to gameplay, because it's merely a guide. It can't cover all eventualities. Instead, believe that you've reached these methods yourself -- and improve on them. Don't imitate. You've got the know-how. Think about the concepts behind SAFE shooting and try to implement them into your CS:S gameplay.

Improving Aim (Getting those Headshots!)
Now that you've both aligned your hitboxes and familiarized yourself with the principles of SAFE shooting, you can begin training to improve your aim.

There are a few things you need to pay close attention to. They are: The first shot, reflex shooting, weapons, and recovery.

Below, I go into more detail... (tired yet? lol)

The First Shot...
For learning to make that first shot count, I recommend, no not sniping, though it's good, but the deagle. In essence, you're firing a first shot every time. You have to click and maintain aim every time. I suggest the deagle because it's powerful enough to carry you throughout the round and has the range you'd come to expect from using rifles. Other pistols just aren't strong enough (until you get hs good). You should be able to frag at least 3 people with the deagle per round.

Sometimes using a deagle to practice isn't practical. So try and select the rifle you wish to practice (because they are different). Again, work on acquiring your target first, THEN firing. Because, as Marcinko says, the Fire, Aim, Ready method is bullfeces... and, as I say, its FAR from accurate.

Developing Reflex Shooting...
Sometimes it's better to select the losing team to develop speed shooting, or reflex shooting, or twitch shooting, whatever it is you call it (you'll know you're developing it correctly when others call it aimbot :P) The reason for this is because losing adds a sense of urgency to each round, and the potential for danger is high. Threat response trains speed. The knowledge that you have to act faster and more accurate than your opponent demands your nerves to react faster. But in order to train reflex shooting, specifically for headshots, you've got to first practice headshots.

For headshots, select the FAMAS and set it to 3 round burst. This is a natural skull buster if I ever saw. Don't let it's short ammo clip get you killed, it's an 8 shooter.

This is where ASMS comes into play, from the Patriot, Aim Small, Miss Small. Aim for their head, and don't miss. If you have a deagle or famas, there's little room for error. A mistake will cost you your round. But in practice, you shouldn't let this get you frustrated. Instead, when your time comes and you must spectate the rest of the round out, reflect on what you did and what happened.

Actively try to aim for the head. Force yourself to move the cursor onto your opponents face and THEN fire. At first, you'll be as slow as molasses in december. But gradually, you'll get faster and faster. It'll be hard at first. Everything's hard at first. But you WILL get better because you're training your nervous system not just to act 'n react, but to interact and respond under pressure.

Weapons...
In order to develop accurate aiming, you'll have to familiarize yourself with the variety of weapons CS:S has to offer. I don't advise randomly selecting any weapon, or a weapon you don't normally use. Instead, do it in a planned, methodical manner so that you can measure your success.

I advise that you choose a set of Core Weapons and incorporate them as your main arsenal. Train in them and only them. For example, master the Glock and USP since they are the default weapons at the beginning of any map. Or perhaps the Deagle.

Also, do weapon combos. Work M4A1/USP action or /deagle. AK/Glock. Get used to switching between weapons in combat, and get used to dropping dry weapons for others scattered around you. This has saved me a number of times.

It's faster to switch to your pistol, or to drop and pick up another weapon than to reload. Investigate this for yourself thoroughly :P

Recovery...
Training for better shooting is just like training anything else. You need to give yourself a break from time to time. Most of you can do this easily enough because you have your lives to attend too. When training you'll have to do it rigorously to shock your nervous system into action, but you MUST stop before fatigue. And yes, you can get fatigued playing CS. You can tell when you are getting fatigued when you're not doing nearly as well. When you're getting caught off-guard, having no "luck" or just plain sucking. You'd do more benefit in developing skill by stopping and taking a break than by continuing gameplay.

In fact, every so often, put CS or any of your games off for a week. Yes, a whole week. That'll give your CNS plenty of time to develop the neural networks it needs to produce the results you desire. It's not psycho mumbo jumbo. It's physical fact. When you get back, you'll actually be better.


Conclusion...
As the saying goes, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. And you can only proceed step by step. So don't rush it. Don't try to run when you're learning to walk. Think. Put to practices these tenets today and leave behind the poorly skilled tomorrow and over come the skilled later. When you begin to unconciously take shots accurately, even headshots, in surprise or what not, you will know you're closer to mastering reflex shooting. Remember, until you've internalized these techniques, and until you've investigated them for yourself, you won't get any better.


For now, that's enough. I'll let you chew on that for a little while before I move on to tactics & strategy. It's almost 8 and I've got dinner at the Red Lobster and a movie planned for the evening :D

GL & HF

<3 Saur

FiLTHY_SNiPER
04-20-2005, 08:55 PM
Omg... I'm sorry Saur, but ur essay posts really turn me away :yuck:

I didn't even get through one sentence cause I didn't see the point if I wasn't goin to read the whole thing.

APOC
04-20-2005, 08:58 PM
I read about a few words and then looked at how long it was, If I ever get really bored ill be sure to check it out but like filthy said I knew I wouldnt finish it right now.

APOC

Monochrome
04-20-2005, 09:29 PM
sounds reasonable to me. might even try it a bit.

thnx for the lesson saur :thumbsup:

Goldragon
04-20-2005, 09:36 PM
real men play unmodded cs:s

Prowler130
04-20-2005, 09:37 PM
real men dont shoot, they knife :D

Kev Kanos
04-20-2005, 09:53 PM
Wow you have alot of time on your hands. That was pretty good though. I think bob needs to read that

Father Goose
04-20-2005, 10:06 PM
Something I've noticed is that if you take the time to take somebody's advice, you'll usually end up better.

So I will read Saur's "essay" and try practicing it.

I don't really have anywhere to go but up :)

Saur
04-21-2005, 12:20 AM
Lol, I knew it's length would be daunting to some. It's unfortunate that the written word has its limitations. Trust me, it'd be a lot easier if I were just there. I like the way it came out, even it is a bit wordy, in fact, I would have preferred to say a lot more. But yeah, that'd be pushing it.

I have a lot of time on my hands. I only take 12 hours, and I have my homework done, and no tests for another 2 weeks, so I'm good.

I'll edit the recap for those of you who would rather glance 'n glean.

Also, re-reading I notice I left out a few points. I'll go ahead and color it to make it easier on the eyes as well.

<3 Saur

Grim_Scythe
04-21-2005, 01:06 AM
Here's the grim tip play this game for four years. Do 2 years of CAL leagues quit because its too hardcore and nerdy. Then come back 5 months later and end up giving the same advice......

Saur
04-21-2005, 01:17 AM
Lol Grim. I dunno about that -- I haven't ever seen any league action. I'd imagine that it would be quite different than the pubs and not at all similar.

In the pubs, it's chaos. You can capitalize on it or be consumed by it.

But from what I understand concerning league play... it's generally 5v5 stuff. And in that kind of situation, I would expect things to be a lot more deliberate and determined. Timing and discipline would win the day.

Pubs are for fun, and so are competitions, but with more serious undertones. This guide is designed to help ya enjoy your everday game more and give ya something to work toward if you wanna get better at it.

This guide is for those of you out there who know they can play better and want to start becoming better today. I've played these games for several years, and that's how I learned to play.

I offer these principles to cut that time into a fraction. You can begin employing the methods I've described above immediately and within a month see marked improvement. After four years? Holy feces. I believe after a few months, you'd have your own style going for you.

Which is another thing...

Many people ask about my config, what sensitivity I use, what zoom sensitivity I use, my movement keys, etc etc. Your movement and sensitivity binds are totally personal If there was a "best" movement/sensitivity cfg, you could be darn sure the paid pros would be using it instead of their own.

dbodenheim
04-21-2005, 01:36 AM
Look the truth of the matter is Saur, this is just Jeff's opinion. I'd like to see you go and play somewhere else.

--you wouldn't be nearly as good at counterstrike if you didnt do all those client side configurations. No one else here is doing client side configurations, why do you have to be different? It really isnt fun for people here when saur gets a 45-5 score not once, not twice, but for hours on end. Sure it may be fun for you, but your ruining a good time for the other 31 people on the server. Were not here to see Saur's leet configuration score.

--you overly justify your posts about not being a haxor and your just way to nice about it. Its like the child molester posing as an ice cream vendor. Its quite eerie and makes me wonder alot more then I did whether your using some kind of hack. Grim Scythe gets awesome scores but they way he dealt with the accusations was far, far different then you.

--It seems to me that your trying to win some popularity contest here? Im not sure. What I do know is that I know at LEAST 100 regulars that use this server, and I doubt that one of them asked you how to set up their client side to "maximize" their kills. 99% of regulars here arnt stat whores at all, and just want to play the game as it was intended to be played. If someone did ask for your help in that department I highly doubt its someone that has been here for awhile.

--your shooting guide. That would of been swell if I had never played a first person shooter before. The guide that I made was intended for my brother, and as a joke for the rest of us. It was noted as such. Your guide preaches to veterans of counterstrike. Veterans are the only ones posting, and taking the time I might add, to check out the site.

Bottom line. As impossible as it may seem Saur, I think the right thing for you to do is return your configuration to its origanal setup. You play at an advantage, and as legal as you justify that in your own mind, it does absolutely nothing for the rest of us.

Jeff

Lord ALF
04-21-2005, 02:13 AM
Hey guys, lets not turn this into a personal flame match... mkay. you've all heard the saying... "opinions are like assholes, everyone has one"... which is ironic since i show mine all the time in the Rant section.

seriously though... accusations are not needed here.

saur - thank you for the tip posting, i'm sure some players here will find it useful. please refrain from posting client side tweaks within this forum. there are plenty of other sites with that stuff on them, post links if you want but i'm fairly sure WiH wants to keep its communtity at a "base-line" level. meaning all things being equal in respects to its players sans hardware.

jeff - as an admin i thank you for your concern over the communtiy and ask that you refrain from posting in such a stern manner. reasoning should be obvious... if things get out of hand usually both parties are banned from the server, and i don't like seeing my friends banned.

everyone else - some comments were made in a snide manner. i know you people and you're better than that. walk the line you want others to walk with you.

nuff said

-alf

Saur
04-21-2005, 02:20 AM
Lol, in light of ALf's above post, I have removed my reply to Jeff's comments. ALF's = teh wise. I will talk w/ jeff privately.

...

Though I will show the public this video:

http://justbi0.de/hitboxes.avi

The cvar's I've described align the hitboxes as would a simple server-side variable (tickrate) would do.

So, now ask yourself these questions...

Still wanna play default settings set for 56k?

Or optimized cvars to play the game the way it was meant to be played? (ie: what you aim/shoot at is what you hit)


Again, your opinions. I offer only proof and advice.

<3 Saur

dbodenheim
04-21-2005, 02:23 AM
Maybe I was a little too stern. I have watched the conversation go on for a month and said nothing about it. So I apologize to Saur if it appeared that way. Since I play majority time POE now I should pretty much stay out of it anyway.

I would like it noted though, that I normally steer clear of topics like this. I usually just post humorous topics. When I post on something serious, it has to be something serious. I understand he is banned right now and that the admins are doing what admins do.

Jeff

Xine
04-21-2005, 08:23 AM
Very well written. For the most part the methodology you used was a breath of fresh air for a CS veteran who is probably becoming saturated with the game, ie., myself. The military jargon was interesting for me considering I read into that stuff in my spare time, and you're absolutely right the situational awareness bit is often times completely over-looked. There have been instances I can remember where I became paranoid others would accuse me of hacking. Most cases it's either luck or your unconscious tendencies surfacing. There's no need to split hairs on either.

About the cvar tweaks, use them if you want. I don't have any problems with anyone who does. There's no law dictating who can or who can't use them if they feel they need to. Of course it's apt to be shunned and ridiculed by some, but my latter statement still stands. Don't box yourself into rules that aren't there and expect your argument to fly. The possibility of these tweaks being optional and not considered 'cheats' at least at the moment are there for a reason. As a personal note though, I don't use them. I don't see a reason in my own game to do so.

Anyway, the bulk of what you outlined to the CS veteran are basics, some necessities to being a successful player, but it was very well said. I'll choose to look at it as a priceless reminder. It's already leaving me anxious to play again today.

Saur
04-21-2005, 02:55 PM
Indeed, and thank you for taking such an objective approach to the matter, Xine. And yeah, the things I've described in the guide are basics, but for one to properly build skill, the foundations must be strong. And yeah that luck or unconcious surfacing sounds a lot like what I was referring to as reflex shooting, or what others may call being in "the zone".

I always thought that adjusting your cvars to fit your personal computer were just a basic, obvious next-step sorta thing to do before anything else. In the above video is what you combat with these adjustments. Usually, from my experience in these discussions, and there have been plenty, the majority of antagonists against cvar tweaking are those that are uninitiated in their use. If anything, I would suggest at least giving them a try to see if they remove those bs/luck shots against/for you because, if ya don't like them or still don't agree with them, you can always set it back to default.

If you put them in an autoexec.cfg (as I suggest) you simply delete the autoexec.cfg. Or, if you have set them in a config, they'll simply reset themselves everytime you load CS. If you've set them and put your config as read only, you'll need to return them to their default values manually which can be found by simply typing the cvar without a value into console (ie cl_cmdrate) and it'll give you its current value and its default value.

And yeah Jeff, lol, I'm banned again. I've been through the line for this merry-go-round ride time 'n time again. Half the time they let me come back, half the time they don't, but in either case, there's the requisite of bannage :P

<3 Saur

The Leviathon
04-27-2005, 02:32 PM
hey i went to that website you linked to in initial post and found in there this list of commands that tells your program not to load things (like water splashes or debris, or dead bodies, or all sorts of things) the point is to boost your fps by giving your computer less stuff to do


are we allowed to do that? im asking for both in general and for this server group.

i wanna say now that all my kills have been without any cvar modifcation or the above stuff (and i dont hax) and im not the best, but at least i can be proud of what i have done. though who knows what differences there are between us in terms of computers and internet quality.

we all play on different footing :( it sucks but its true. when i played on my laptop with wireless internet and a wireless mouse my K-D ratio was like 0.5 and all my kills were practically handed to me.

wihadmin
04-27-2005, 02:52 PM
Until there is a way to restrict cvar mods, there is nothing we can do. So feel free to mod cvars to your liking.

FiLTHY_SNiPER
04-27-2005, 05:22 PM
I think I might.. although I have no idea what a cvar is..

/reads the almighty Saur's post

snizel_88
04-27-2005, 05:55 PM
I have a stupid question. Does a cvar or watever basicially changes the program? Or does it just alter it like a new skin?

atomicbob
04-27-2005, 06:27 PM
The way I understand CVAR mods, it's like we all have this engine, i.e. game software, we've been given to race with. We soup up our PC's to whatever level we can afford, so as to take maximum advantage of the engine. i.e. Chassis work. Tweaking the CVAR is surely then, comparable to tuning the engine to make it perform best for the chassis you have it hanging in.

While hacking is like putting a secondary engine on it, I find it hard to find fault with tinkering with the timing to make it run better.

That said, I'm too stupid to pop the hood.

:x

ResJudicata
04-27-2005, 08:06 PM
The way I understand CVAR mods, it's like we all have this engine, i.e. game software, we've been given to race with. We soup up our PC's to whatever level we can afford, so as to take maximum advantage of the engine. i.e. Chassis work. Tweaking the CVAR is surely then, comparable to tuning the engine to make it perform best for the chassis you have it hanging in.

While hacking is like putting a secondary engine on it, I find it hard to find fault with tinkering with the timing to make it run better.

That said, I'm too stupid to pop the hood.

:x
i agree wit you bob

FiLTHY_SNiPER
04-27-2005, 09:29 PM
Nice analogy Bob.. I'd try to pop the hood but right now Saur's post length scares me away. :o

Perhaps tomorrow

*eric#3304*
04-27-2005, 09:53 PM
no wonder u suck :thumbsup:

atomicbob
04-28-2005, 12:18 AM
I suck for lots of reasons....this doesn't happen to be one yet.

("pop the hood, Bob, you freakin idot!!)

Argh!! I'm trying dude!! It ain't working!!

:jester:

Please send the short bus to my house.

Saur
04-28-2005, 03:22 AM
hey i went to that website you linked to in initial post and found in there this list of commands that tells your program not to load things (like water splashes or debris, or dead bodies, or all sorts of things) the point is to boost your fps by giving your computer less stuff to do


are we allowed to do that? im asking for both in general and for this server group.

i wanna say now that all my kills have been without any cvar modifcation or the above stuff (and i dont hax) and im not the best, but at least i can be proud of what i have done. though who knows what differences there are between us in terms of computers and internet quality.

we all play on different footing :( it sucks but its true. when i played on my laptop with wireless internet and a wireless mouse my K-D ratio was like 0.5 and all my kills were practically handed to me.

Valve has announced several times that it will NOT ban you for any cvar tweaks. So according to Valve, have at it with what you will.

However...

CAL 'n all those leagues have a few restraints on what cvars should be tweaked and to what degree. Most of them are graphical cvars that could be used maliciously. For example, any weather altering commands are not allowed. Any commands that give a semblance of lambert or player model fullbright ain't allowed either. Stuff that's featured in hax that can be ghetto-rigged through cvar combinations aren't allowed (obviously).

To their credit, Valve has already done away with many of these cvars in their recent updates. I'm sure you remember the skull spawning incidents 'n such liek that. There was one, mat_proxy (it's been fixed of course) that would fade the walls and give you a built-in wall hack. All you had to do was type: mat_proxy 2. There was a similar one that put numbers below player positions according to how far away they were from you. These numbers could also be seen through walls. Again, it's been fixed.

This is why many ladders for cs:s have moved slowly or shut down altogether.

Unfortunately, there are hax that are designed to get around these new cvar restrictions. With that being said, I'll point out that Wihadmin remarked that until there was something that could be used against them, have at it.

Be happy, there is. :)

There's a CAL plugin called CSP (CAL Server Plugin, catchy ain't it?) that can regulate cvars, if you're interested in doing so. This plugin restrains the malicious type of cvar combinations, but I believe it can also be used to control the other cvars as well. I don't know though -- every CSP server I've gone to has authenticated me (w/ my tweaks). Which is another point I stress -- I use "tweaks" as adjustments and make sure they're well within the boundaries CAL has set. The only problem is that it may have compatibility issues with other plugins. The CAL site says to uninstall any others :X So I dunno, might have to wait for a more versatile version. Can't really hold it against them, it was designed for matches only anyway, but there are pubs that employ it.

Atomic Bob's analogy couldn't be closer to the mark. I would be all for having the same, default settings as anyone else if we all had the same hardware systems.

Like the Xbox, Halo2 players don't have to worry about raising FPS or getting better network tweaks because it only runs on broadband and every xbox has the same processor, video card, ram, etc.

But many of us (and you can tell from the What's your computer stats? thread in the tech talk forum) have vastly different systems. Some have high-end, some have low-end, and some have in-betweeny weenies. Naturally, you'll want to adjust your cs:s game according to its level, or what not.

But that concerns graphics tweaks and such. Like the bodies disappearing after you kill them, lower graphics, no specular or bump mapping, stuff that's tough on the processor 'n vcard.

The tweaks I'm talkin' about in my shooting guide are only basic tweaks that any one of you should employ. Many of you can cut your ping in half by properly adjusting your cl_rate and rate. Many of you can avoid getting hit by BS shots, or shooting at your enemy, but missing by adjusting your cl_updaterate and cl_interp. In SoFII many public servers kicked you for having default rates.

A few adjustments of cvars do not make you a pub-i++ all-star player. You do that. These tweaks only prevent your skills from being bottle-necked by the particular system you game on.

It's like an artist trying to paint a sunset through the window. If the window is dirty, that artist better clean it off to be able to get the best view of the environment as possible. It's up the ability of the artist to actually paint the picture.

EDIT: Lol, I just noticed this on the Stats page...

1 ` Saur 396 105 3.77 1.39 04:44:17 1600.55
2 -LiT-<<Eject>> 223 63 3.54 0.99 03:46:15 1570.90

Skill > Hax :mp5:

<3 Saur

Prowler130
04-28-2005, 08:31 AM
EDIT: Lol, I just noticed this on the Stats page...

1 ` Saur 396 105 3.77 1.39 04:44:17 1600.55
2 -LiT-<<Eject>> 223 63 3.54 0.99 03:46:15 1570.90

Skill > Hax :mp5:

<3 Saur

was that really necessary, i think not.....

Saur
04-28-2005, 08:33 AM
To early to poke fun? I reckon so...

<3 Saur

Xine
04-28-2005, 08:54 AM
Nice job mentioning the CAL plugin. It completely slipped my mind. I'm sure that would ease the minds of many here knowing that something such as that exists. I've tinkered with a few cvars myself lately, and many of them I didn't like. The interpolate tweaks drastically changed my game, so I'm guessing I don't have hitbox issues as prolific as I imagined. I decided not to use it because the persistent bumping of the screen bugged me. I'll manage without it.

atomicbob
04-28-2005, 09:41 AM
Is there a CVAR tweak that makes my bullets really fat?

:yaya:

Saur
04-28-2005, 10:23 AM
Nice job mentioning the CAL plugin. It completely slipped my mind. I'm sure that would ease the minds of many here knowing that something such as that exists. I've tinkered with a few cvars myself lately, and many of them I didn't like. The interpolate tweaks drastically changed my game, so I'm guessing I don't have hitbox issues as prolific as I imagined. I decided not to use it because the persistent bumping of the screen bugged me. I'll manage without it.

Lol, if I forgot to mention, you'll have to turn cl_smooth to 0 to prevent that bumping effect. Also, don't use the ping method I outlined in the suggestions thread. Use 1/cl_updaterate. WiH's max updaterate is 64, so you could have cl_updaterate 64 and cl_interp .015625 (though I think it clips at .015, not sure though) If you set your interp wrong, you'll get that effect.

If you turn it off completely, whoa! It'll be like playing at 33 fps (server's tickrate).

<3 Saur

ResJudicata
04-28-2005, 10:45 AM
hey dude.. how do i reset my configs? the tweeks that you recommended totally messed my game, i guess i adapted to the stock settings, and the new ones are messing me up... :yuck:

Saur
04-28-2005, 10:52 AM
Yeah, for some people they have to adjust a bit. It'll feel like they get hit easier and miss more but that's because they're used to the default settings predict waaay earlier (default interp is .1 which is a 100ms prediction). Usually though, it's not an issue and in a map or two you'll be more comfortable.

But if you wanna know how to change'em back, just delete your autoexec.cfg Or if you typed them in console, just restart CS:S, it'll delete them for you.

You're the first to say they've really messed ya up lol.

<3 Saur

Phenix
04-28-2005, 11:41 AM
hey dude.. how do i reset my configs? the tweeks that you recommended totally messed my game, i guess i adapted to the stock settings, and the new ones are messing me up... :yuck:

Actually, I second that, I have to type cl_smooth 0 everytime i enter the game now..or else my game is jittery.

Saur
04-28-2005, 11:47 AM
I think cl_smooth should be set to 0 regardless of if you use my tweaks or not.

But that's just me.

<3 Saur

loopcycle
04-28-2005, 11:50 AM
some of the settings really goofed me up too but i never got the screen bump issues that Needle described. im still experimenting with different values.

Quick question: should autoexec.cfg be read-only as well? and should all cvar tweaks be in the autoexec.cfg, so you can easily revert to the default config.cfg if necessary/desired?

Saur
04-28-2005, 12:55 PM
Yeah, if you set your settings correctly you won't get that jerky bump issues that they're talking about.

And nah, you don't have to make the autoexec read only. It'll automatically execute everytime you load cs:s. And yeah, you could put all your cvar tweaks in your autoexec.cfg if you wanted to, that's what just about everyone else does for that very specific reason.

You'll want it in the same folder as your config.cfg which should be located at /counter-strikesource/cstrike/cfg.

If you're ever worried that you really f'd up your settings, just delete all the .cfg's in that folder and start cs:s again. You'll have to remap your keys and your sensitivity, but everything will be default againt.

<3 Saur

snizel_88
04-28-2005, 09:33 PM
hey bob, do u really get this stuff? It seems like me and you r the only one's that really don't no this stuff.
its greek to me

Makasuro
05-06-2005, 06:24 AM
Good stuff. I'll have to try some of those tweaks.

I pretty much already follow SAFE to the tee... Fixing those hit boxes should really help a lot. See you on the battlefield.

Saur
05-06-2005, 11:52 AM
Yeah, Lol, I was about to say.. Heck, when I see your name come up on the crosshair's I know I'm in for a fight to the finish. :P

Happy hunting

<3 Saur

loopcycle
05-06-2005, 01:51 PM
when I see your name come up on the crosshair's I know I'm in for a fight to the finish...

you see enemies names on the crosshair? is there a setting for that?

wihadmin
05-06-2005, 02:02 PM
when I see your name come up on the crosshair's I know I'm in for a fight to the finish...

you see enemies names on the crosshair? is there a setting for that?

On WiH servers, enemy names do not appear on crosshairs. This is to prevent players from scanning for enemies making hiding in dark areas ineffective.

Phenix
05-06-2005, 02:05 PM
Yeah, Lol, I was about to say.. Heck, when I see your name come up on the crosshair's I know I'm in for a fight to the finish. :P

Happy hunting

<3 Saur

:mgfootinmouth:

loopcycle
05-06-2005, 03:14 PM
or maybe saur means the name of his teammate in the x-hairs? :bonk:

ar! knife fight in spawn to the finish for you copperhead!

:fechtduell:

Saur
05-07-2005, 12:37 AM
Lol :P Guess I'm seein' things

Anyway, here's another video. Its' an example of poor hitboxes.

http://nupo.org/source/huh.avi

<3 Saur

Bonez
05-07-2005, 09:49 AM
they need to base the hit detection off the charachter model, instead of the 10 year old method of solving lag issues between dialup users.

Saur
05-07-2005, 11:27 AM
yeah it's too bad pixel hit detection is copyrighted to those doom3 guys :( :( :(

<3 Saur

Bonez
05-07-2005, 12:18 PM
yeah it's too bad pixel hit detection is copyrighted to those doom3 guys :( :( :(

<3 Saurnot completely, UT has used it for a long time.

atomicbob
05-07-2005, 08:30 PM
Saur, so what is that showing me? That you can shoot behind the targter and get the kill?

Just wanting to make sure I see what I'm thinking I been seeing.

TIA

Bonez
05-07-2005, 08:34 PM
depends, moving target can either be ahead or behind the charachter model(which you see), standing still it's off to the left a little, and crouching it's off to the right. oddly enough

Saur
05-08-2005, 02:37 AM
depends, moving target can either be ahead or behind the charachter model(which you see), standing still it's off to the left a little, and crouching it's off to the right. oddly enough

Indeed, crazy stuff. Hard to make sense of it at all really.

Nuts though, how some people hold to their convictions that default = teh win.

Yay for vac2 though, eh comrades?

<3 Saur

3S+R311A
05-08-2005, 01:50 PM
In the past I have played with a few rate changes. The only one I can remember is cl_rate and my friend steven"hobo" did all my others when I started to play 1.6 last summer. Since CSS came out I have only messed with cl_rate so, I will probably at least try out what you have said Saur.

The comment on Deagle, OMG I <3 this gun, is right on. Saur was there when I took out practically the whole CT side on de_dust with probably about three clips :D

On headshots... If I have killed you it was probably with one. It is the only way to aim. I already play like you suggested bc steven told me it was the only way to fly in this game back in 1.6. So, the first six months I probably played nothing but aim maps and then CSS came out.

I believe the underlying message in SAFE is to stay calm. The only time you should ever really not be is when you run out into a beautiful field and find nothing but the opposition there without any cover. Only at this point you pull out the para and use it asa rifle while jumping over all the place with constant side-stepping action while PANICKING but taking careful aim.

Oh, and yes the q3 rule also takes effect in most if not all fps games. DO NOT play chase! When one chases you will only be bombarded by nades and shot from around corners after you creep out from around them.

Basically everything Saur wrote is pretty true :rockon: and I need to fix my rates :hehehe:

oh yeah and Saur

you need to change your sig to
Saur<3 bc i r0x0r U! :yaya:

Saur
05-10-2005, 06:28 AM
Yeah, estrella hit the nail on the head with that one. Above all, you need to stay calm. If you can maintain your composure in spite of the odds, you can overcome them just as he did on dust w/ his deagle. ( I was kickin' back in ct spawn just in awe )

Likewise, I had a moment myself on dust. I managed to flank the Ts while they camped the underpass. There was easily 5 or 6. I acted quickly, but intelligently. Took out the rear guard first and went for their skulls.

So yeah, be calm.. like a bomb :D


ALSO!

I found what I believe to be the most definitive evidence of poor hitboxes in cs:s. Real men play unmodded cs? Hrrrm... if only unmodded cs was fit for real men :P

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=css_hit_b0x_bb

<3 Saur

Phenix
05-10-2005, 09:15 AM
Those crazy hit boxes, always going first...its like a shadow only its your cs soul :crazy:

loopcycle
05-10-2005, 10:16 AM
maybe thats why its so damn hard to hit people that do that left-right shuffle while theyre firing?

The_Professor
05-10-2005, 11:09 AM
maybe thats why its so damn hard to hit people that do that left-right shuffle while theyre firing?

Yeah you're probably right. But unfortuantely I seem to have the problem of walking into the bullets and taking one in the dome. :yuck:

monos
05-10-2005, 12:39 PM
the best fix would be for valve to apply the same accuracy adjustment to movement that they do to being on a ladder this would stop the bullcrap jumping around or sliding back and forth or even running head shots, the jumping in particular is frustrating IMO jumping around and shooting people is like an exploit i.e. using something in a way other than what was intended. as many of the regulars have indicated, they do paintball, i seriously doubt anyone has encountered someone running around and jumping continuously. the jump function is a part of the game designed strictly to allow you access to the top of in game items, boxes, stones, windows, etc.
:rant:

Saur
05-10-2005, 02:55 PM
the best fix would be for valve to apply the same accuracy adjustment to movement that they do to being on a ladder this would stop the bullcrap jumping around or sliding back and forth or even running head shots, the jumping in particular is frustrating IMO jumping around and shooting people is like an exploit i.e. using something in a way other than what was intended. as many of the regulars have indicated, they do paintball, i seriously doubt anyone has encountered someone running around and jumping continuously. the jump function is a part of the game designed strictly to allow you access to the top of in game items, boxes, stones, windows, etc.
:rant:

Indeed! Have you ever played HL2DM? It's REALLY bad there. People practically complain you're an exploiter if you crouch...

Crouching in that game gives you really whacked out hitboxes. If you're playing against a player that's crouched, you have to shoot him in the lungs or middle chest area. I put a crossbow bolt right between one mans eyes and it didn't do ANYTHING. And so I tried it myself. I crouched, and people were literally shooting above me.

Now imagine all the bunny hopping script kiddies jump crouching...

Nightmare :O

<3 Saur

wihadmin
05-12-2005, 09:20 AM
Here's a message from Alfred at Valve in regards to the recent hitbox demo that's released.


There is a bug in the demo code (incorrectly interpreting client side
prediction) that makes using demos to look at hit box issues invalid.
You need to do a direct capture from your video card buffer.
We have a couple small fixes for the hitbox code with the next release,
but the majority of the problem is that people do not understand how
client side prediction works. In particular, the server is 100 msec
ahead of all the clients, so the server side hitboxes will ALWAYS lead
the clients view of the work. When the client fires a weapon the server
rewinds its state to the exact tick of that button press and then
computes the result (one of the bugs was that the rewind code didn't
correctly reset the state of the bone cache in the player model).

- Alfred

monos
05-12-2005, 01:26 PM
it is encouraging to see that valve has admitted and seems to be adressing the hitbox issue