=FL= formerly requests a response from the founder/s

[=FL= THEZeekArmy]

I was on your server tonight {War is hell best of bf2} with 4 other team mates of the =FL= clan and were kicked for no reason whatsoever. The message that came up was for excessive team killing as we were kicked in consession one after the other...one of our guys was the commander and the rest on foot or in armor with ZERO TK's of any of the fellow team mates. If you look at the logs for that time period you will see no TK's from any of the =FL= clan members. The funny thing is we were banned as a squad not as individuals. I have to admit that after 10 years of playing FPS's we have become pretty good and usually finish in the top 10 on average. On your server tonight we were finishing in the top 5 almost everytime. Tonights date is 8/10/06 and the time was around 10:30 pm est. I am the captain of our clan and a co-teamfounder, I'm one of the harshest of our clan when it comes to following server rules and fair play. What completely confounds me is that we were banned for untrue accusations other than finishing high in at least 8 rounds in a row. If I knew there was some crap going on that violated your {or anyother server rules} I would have been the first to jump on my guys before your admin had the chance to blink. I'm a hardass when it comes to fairplay and do not tolerate any negative behavior when it comes to following rules {I think the reason why is because I make games for a living and have been for over 15 years so I take these things a little more seriously than the normal joe}. We have been a guest on your server many times over the last year and have fully enjoyed ourselves and the gameplay/challenge your fine server offers. I just want a simple request approached and looked into...Why were we as a squad banned/kicked from your server? We all followed your rules {Even though we were constantly being TK'd we did not retaliate in any form or punish for teamkills}. Thanks guys, I know that your leadership can get to the bottom of this situation and explain this confounding incident.

Really appreciate the challenge and play your server offers,

=FL= THEZeekArmy

[DigitalBacon]

Here's one of many screenshots I have of your guys tking...this was about a week ago.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Digital_Bacon/shadho.jpg

edited:drayu

[[W33T] Joker]

here is today one. one of your fl guys ran infront of my jet twice and tked some other guy too.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1425/screen000hi6.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen000hi6.jpg)

[KAstickboy]

DavidHasslehof']FL noobs

watch it hasslehof, i know youve been on hiatus for like a year but lets these guys hash it out with the owners.

Sorry =FL=, i dont want this to become a W33T vs FL thing... i dont know what happened but im sure the owners will respond...

KA

[OG Escobar1]

post will be moved...Snake will respond when he has time...

[Drayu]

This has been moved to the complaints section. PLease wait for the banning admin to respond. Thank you.

[GorroXXII]

Snake I believe was the one that banned you, please wait for his reply, as for everyone else, please read the complaints forums rules!

[Knottwobad]

Looks like you have some work ahead of you Zeek. Seems like ShadHoWarrior has been on the watch list for some time for tking for vehicles witnessed by other players but not admins. Tonight an admin was tk'd by him. Seems like another couple of members were up to no good as well.

[SnaKe]

That's right Knot. I had to ban one of the FL guys (Kolyma) for tking. He tk'd me, there's no two ways about it. I figured one bad apple so I didnt ban the rest of the clan.

Then in the next map ShadHoWarrior tk'd me for a tank. Which by the way he was on the watch list for that very thing. So I banned the whole clan from Best of bc I figured that's how they roll.

You sound like an honorable guy Zeek, but somebody here is lying sir. Either these two men that tk'd me are lying to you or you're lying to us. Either way we dont take kindly to liars or tker's. The only way the FL clan will get back on our servers is for everyone to fess-up.

And dont bother making this a "we're so good you had to ban us" story. That gets really old and it's not the case. We dont care if your the world's best or the world's worst clan. It has to do with following the rules.

[=FL= THEZeekArmy]

Snake,
Thanks for responding to my request so quickly. I saw the screenshot of Shadow and concur that his kicking was justified and I support your decision to take action. I've posted to him about his TK'n. In Kolyma's case I saw no proof anywhere about his actions, but today on the clan forums he confessed he had crossed a line in the way he was playing.
I still do not understand the whole squad ban, thats like saying all Muslims are terrorists. In addition I would like to know how you judge an accidental TK to a purposeful one. I know of a few instances when I'm on fully auto and some idiot comes from behind me and runs directly into my line of fire and gets nailed, then they have the tenacity to punish. Is that considered a ban-able TK? It seems that there are serial abusers of your server rules as I read your 'Complaints' section. By no means do we as a clan support this type of violation of set rules and will be taking corrective actions to rectify the recent incident. However in all fairness, I believe that those within =FL= who have not violated any standards or rules, be allowed to continue to enjoy what your server has to offer.

Thanks again,

ZeekArmy

[SnaKe]

The picture of Shadhowarrior was from a different time then last night and your right he will not be back no matter what.

You need to understand that when we are tk'd multiple times by multiple members of a clan it has been our experience that the entire clan is like that.
When we grant someone the privelage of wearing our =HR= tag we make sure they know they represent not only themselves but everyone within the clan. I'm sure you can understand that.

Come back in 30 days and I'll lift all of the bans except for Shadhowarrior and Kolyma.

[SnaKe]

The picture of Shadhowarrior was from a different time then last night and your right he will not be back no matter what.

You need to understand that when we are tk'd multiple times by multiple members of a clan it has been our experience that the entire clan is like that.
When we grant someone the privelage of wearing our =HR= tag we make sure they know they represent not only themselves but everyone within the clan. I'm sure you can understand that.

Come back in 30 days and I'll lift all of the bans except for Shadhowarrior and Kolyma.This recent ruling I made has been suspended.

The owners will need to discuss the latest input from your clan member Kolyma.

We'll let you know. If your still interested.

[wihadmin]

For historical and trackability.

http://www.warishellgaming.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10944

http://www.warishellgaming.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10948

[SnaKe]

Your clan will remain banned.

[=FL= THEZeekArmy]

Sanke,
I respect your clans decision but I cannot in good faith support it. Banning an entire clan for the actions of a few I believe is an over reaction on a few levels. What surprised me quite a bit was the statement about TK'n Shadow on purpose because it was thought he was tank whoring. I'm confused, isn't that in itself a banning offense? It feels like a double standard. Couldn't someone have asked him to mellow on taking the tank instead of TK'n? I mean TK'n for whatever reason is wrong in my personal opinion but there are times that you get TK'd so many times you sometimes really consider payback. I am not usually prone to behave like that unless a guy has dedicated his entire gametime to following me around trying to knife me.
In closing, I see the forum really got out of control and there is nothing I can do or say to justify both sides of the discussion. In my eyes both sides erred in thier dialouge and feel poorly about it.
I liked playin in the server and want to thank you for letting us and myself enjoy it in the time we had. As you probably realize already, it wouldn't be a proper thing to do, in returning to your server. Hey, if we meet in another server that would be great and would still like to meet you on the field of battle!

Thanks for your time Snake,

=FL= THEZeekArmy

[GorroXXII]

WHo TK'd ShadhoWarrior??? He was the one banned for TK'ing???

edit: also to add, not sure who your leader is, but I would highly recommend teaching Kolyma some manners, one bad seed can ruin it for all.

[SnaKe]

Dont try to start shit. I didnt tk anyone.

Good riddents.

[=FL= THEZeekArmy]

I never implied you Snake {if in fact that response was directed at me}, I was only being factual {as I reviewed the actual displayed evidence} and decent in my replies to the situation. I never took sides in this entire forum adventure, I'm as nuetral as one can be even though I wear clan tags. I looked for the truth and found the waters to be so diluted I couldn't tell right from wrong. As I have said I'd like to believe I took the impartial approach to the situation and repremanded the guys who you believe had violated your server rules. After an anaylisis of all of the written, verbal, and photographic proof...you still ban an entire clan for a few misgivings of 2 individuals...I guess all 'Muslims' are 'Terrorists' {as it seems to be the expressed thought pattern} in your clans eyes and to me this is very sad. I hope you see in the future and real world experiences that the thought patterns that many of your elders and founders believe in, is only going to hamper your further adult growth in the real world and the events that surround many of you in your daily lives. I've fought in 2 wars and somehow survived unscathed as a 10th Mountain division soilder, this is the only way one can come to the realization of what I have formerly expressed in my thoughts when it comes to what I believe and I know to be true. Your acts are your own and you have total control over what you will allow and not allow in your server. I still say peace to your clan and let this time of upheaval pass with the winds of time. In the end nothing will be left but a few truths and untruths on both sides. I think we can still meet on the virtual field of battle and still enjoy one anothers company. I could be wrong but I really believe we can be equals on a nuetral playing field where neither has the advantage from a gaming point of view.

Good plaing with you WIH, it was fun while it lasted.

=FL= THEZeekArmy

[wihadmin]

We run a gaming community and gaming servers. We have our own set of guidelines that we follow. It is our experience over the years that when we only ban 2 or 3 members of a clan, the rest of the clan will come back to cause further problems on our servers. Your clan members' actions are reflective of your entire clan. It is your job to make sure your members are properly representing your clan. It is not our job to babysit your clan.

With that said, after your first posting, the owners were in discussion about just banning the 2 in your clan and let the rest play here. But then Kolyma had to come here posting crap and repeatedly causing problems. That in itself sealed your clan's fate on our servers.

As you have given us advice, my advice to you, as captain and co-teamfounder of FL, is that you should take a close look at the people in your clan to determine if they truly represent what you clan is about or you will see more of the same type of bans from other servers.

[=FL= THEZeekArmy]

Thank you wihadmin for responding to my latest post. But I'm saddened by your 'Group effective theory' by saying that because a few of the many, that the rest of us may share the same mental beliefs and game playing attitude of the entire whole. This makes me think that you have been bombarded by many so called 'Clans" that behaved in such an unprofessional manner therefore causing you to believe that the few represent the core of what an individual clan stands for. In my experience many clans are a group of individuals who say they are a clan because they share the same tag. We in =FL= are different in many ways. We are a fledgling group who broke away from THE Clan for the very reasons you state as a flashpoint for inapropriate behavior. Many of the senior membors {and I was one of them} held the #1 spot inTWL.en many of us for the last 10-15 years learned from our mistakes and recognized those to be trouble makers. This is the core reason why we broke off from them and started our own clan that hopefully represented the best of the best from a salvaged clan going nowhere because of the manner of play both in competion ub play. I can assure you sir, that it is not the fact here in this case. By banning a whole group of people because of a few individuals indescretion is not in line with a logical decision. I called into action and held accountable those that may have tarnished our clan name. From there there is nothing more I can do to grant favor in your eyes that 'WE' as =FL= have always respected your rules and followd those rules to a "T". By holding the rest of my clanmates to the same standard you believe we shouold be held I believe I understand your point of view. Even though I believe that some of your beliefs as a whole are flawed I respect them. I'm just sorry you had to go thru so many assholes and the attached so called clans, thatwe fall into the same catagory you feel as detremental to your servers command and control. In any case I see this as a learning experience and will fold that into what we are as a clan and what we will become in the future. I just feel saddened that we will no longer feel the wrath of a top 3rd server and the feeling of being 'Owned' by that sameserver. We were attracted to you because of you gaming prowness and ability to own on the battlefield by your clan. As =FL= we look for the top servers and the clans who run them to better ourselves as a whole. Which inturn makes us better competitors in the professional competition leauges. I'm sorry that this falling out has ended with a bitter taste in both our pallets. I do not not know what to say from this point other than that I am truely sorry for what has transpired between 2 very talented clans and our bright futures in competition and pub play. I hope that one day we may find ourselves within the same squad or team owning the hell out of the newest 'So called clans' when we are pubbing. I will always welcome WIH within the folds of =FL= when we find one another in the pub servers...Peace out guys and I for one hold no ill will towards you and the way you run your server.

=FL=THEZeekArmy